תוס thee Chemdas Shlom
תוס says that according to ר' אלעזר aiday chasema don't work to make the גט only to be used as proof. תוס brings 3 proofs.
1. the gemara on לוa says we where מתקן signitu just in case the עידי מסירה die ,so you that the rif is wrong and aeidey chasema cant be used as the regueler aidem bec if they would ,why does the gemara say the only thing they could be used fo is for proof, must be it can't be used for anything else
English
2. the 'גמ says if 2 couples with the same names send the גט with a שליח and the 2 גט gets mixed up and we don't know which 1 belongs to each couple the הלכה is the שליח should give both גיטין to each lady to make sure that each 1 got the גט that was writtetn for her the gemara says this soultion will not work with reb elazer bec since witness the see it give it over cut it so the witness need to know which 1 is for which so it wouldn't help to give both to both
2/14/18 (pr)
con't of תוס דקיימא לן
even though rebbi meir holds עידי חתימה כרתי , you sill need עידי מסירה at the time of the giving just like you need עידים to watch the kedushion happening
תוס wants to say that even though by gitein you need עידי מסירה but by a sale of money, the shter wouldn't need adiom , the reason is because only by gitein you need עדות לקיומיה - adiom which make the transaction happen however by money you only need adiom for the matter to be proven and you don't need עדות לקיומיה and therefore you wont need עידי מסירה
proof read completed
תוסrs says that although hotzos bal din normally works, by kidushion it wont work if she admits she is married to reuvaen bec its rov leachreina- which means that we dont beleve your admission if its messing up someone else and when she admits that she is married to reuvain she is making herself asour to his brother bec of ashes ach and t4 she's not beleived
avrumy s akses why does tosfes only say that she's messing up is brother it's in fact she's messing up the whole world because now she's asour to everyone like it says she is asure on the whole world like hekdish
Q#2 tosfes says she isn't believed regarding gireshun cuz she's making herself asur to kohnim lechora ask avrumi she was asur the whole time to kohanim because she wasn't married lady
to answer the last Q you can say although when she was married she was asour to a kohan I thought that was only a timely thing, bec if the husband would die she would be מותר
2/15/18
ג'מ תנן ר''ג
the ג'מ wants to say an explaination for the מחלוקת of our משנה, based on the following : the cities we are discussing are close to א''י the 1st מאן דאמר holds that the reason a person must say בפנו''ן is bec of ain bekeien leshma and since these cities are close by to eretz yisroel there are talmeiday chachamim that know and teach the halacha of leshmah however the outher man deamur holds the reason a shliach needs to say בפנו''ן is bec of ain bekeien leshma metaven- we need verafecathion of the shtar so even though the cities are close by since there is a confict between the 2 cities there is no transportashion and it wont be able to be verified and t4 you need to say befuny lectav
Q- so on this the ג'מ asks can it be that the tana kama holds like raba and the outher tanueim hold like rava ?
Ans rava says relly both tanueim hold like me that the reason to say בפנו''ן is bec ein bekeien leshma , so the the tana kama - we understand his shita that you dont need to say befuny nechtam befuny nectav when coming from rekem lcheger bec since they are close by they know the halacha of leshma but rabbi gamleiel holds that coming from rekem vcheger needs to say befuny nectav/nectam bec its not that close so they donyt know the halcha of leshma, but from lud to kafer lud he will agree you dont have to say bec its mu
2/19/18
tenan
the chasam sofer ask if the grmara holds in the havea meina that in rekem there is no edim found bec theres a fight between rekem a eretz yisroel so than how could the tana kama say its bekeien leshma if no talemiday chachueim could travel to there from א''י
i ans -that although there isn't constent traffic between the 2 , so there wont be eidm to verfiy, but once in a while a person will get though, so there are talmeidy chacumeim that know the halcha
the chasam sofer gives a diff ans:
even though there is a fight between rekem and א''י but since the yeshivoes where in eretz yisroel so ppl would go from rekem to א''י but no one went from א''י to rekem if you hold the prop was lefi shein bekeien leshmah its not a prop bec rekem has ppl that lernt in א''י but if the reason for brfuny nectav if לפי שאין עידם מצוין לקימי
so when bringing a גט from א''י to rekem they wont be able to verify in later on, so t4 you need to say befuny nectam/tav bec ain eidim metzavein lekimay how ever when going from rekem to ey there is
levi Q whyh doesnt the 'גמ say the reason for the dispute between RG and תנא קמא is if by close by do the ppl know the הלכה of lishma
MARIM ans rather not say that there arguing in MEDOOS if ppl know or not
2/21 18
chaumim says the grmara brings down the shita of the chachmim that even hamolich-which is bringing from ey to chutz luaretz must say befuny nectam/nectav . the gemara says you see that the tana kama holds you dont need to say bfn the gemara asks that it seems the machlokes bet. the tana kama and the chachmim ,is that the tana kama holds like raba and t4 from ey you dont need bfn bec in ey they know the halacha of leshma howerver the chachmim that hold even from ey you need to say it, is bec they hold like ruva and since there is no transpertaishion you need to say bfn.
thu. 2/22/18
rabua metretz- rabu says everyone holds like me that the reason for bfn is bec lefi shain bekien leshma, the chachmim that hold that by molich from ey you need to say is bec of a gezirah of molich atu mavi . ruva says evryone holds like me that the reason for bfn is lfi shain edim metzvin lekymay, but the ? for that he says really the tana kama agrees to the chachmim that molich from ey does need bfn bec ein eydim lekymay, just the chacmim are coming not to arguu but to explain the tana kama
Tue. 3/6/18
the gemara asks the following Q on raba
1. the gm brings down a mishna that says if someone cant say bfn, all he has to do is verify the signatures.
1) the gm analyzes what does it mean "he can't say bfn"?
2) the gm try to say it means a choresh deaf-mute
3) the gm says that cant be bec if we where discussing a charash, his issues are much lager than just "he can't say " bec he cant even be a shliach to bring the gett, (bec a chash"u cant be a shliach to bring a gett)
4)so the gm says the case of "he cant say" iswhen he was a shliach he was a speking man (so he was kosher for the mission) but b4 he had a chance to say bfn he became a choresh.
2. now we know the " he cant say " is talking about a pocach venchoresh and on that the mishna says since he can't say bfn the way to take care of it, is by verifying the signatures that they aren't forged
3. So based on all this the gm asks that according to raba who is concerned about leshma what does it help if we know the signatures warrant forged, we still don't know if its leshma?
thu. 3/8/18
the gemara ans that raba will tell you the reason why verifecathion alone is enough bec we are discucsing a time in history when ppl already lernt the halacha of leshma so we have nothing else to be worried about.
sun 3/11
hkduma
the gm explained that eini ychul lomar is discussing a deaf-mute and all he got to do is to verify the signethers bec we are holding leacher shlumdu-after every one was already bekieim in leshmua (so leshma isnt a issue anymore)
Q- the gm asks if they already are leaxher shelumdu and there is no concern of leshmua than why can only aini yochul verfiy the signethers even a regular bukach shuldnt need to say bfn and should just need to verfy the signerthers
Q if so when the husband brings the gett he should need to say bfn?
thu/3/15
tosfes Q- what is the ai hachey -why is this Q based on what we discussed till now?
A- the gemara is only batherd now that rava with stood all the Q asked on him we still have shever that raba must be worng bec acc. to ruvawe understand why when the bal brings it he doesnt need to say bfn but acc to raba you should need to say bfn when the bal brings it (like we will explain) so raba is shever agein?!?
tosfos explaines the Q is only on raba bec acc to ruva that the reason for bfn is bec we'er aferid the husband will come and claim its mezoief so when the the husband himeself is bringing it it cant be that its forged bec obviously the wife didnt forge it bec he's giving it and did you forge it because we are not concerned he's trying purposely to mess her over, but according rava to that the concern is shlo leshma that even when he brings it we should be concerned that later on he will come say it's not lishma ( and the reason he gave her a gett that is not leshma is because he didn't know the halcha of the leshma?
fri 3/16/18
the gm asks when the husband bring the gett he should have to say bfn,bfn
gm answers that when the husband himself is bringing the gett that means he is really to get divoreced he wont come with fake news that the gett is forged.