Jerusalem Talmud Taanit 1:2

משנה: אֵין שׁוֹאֲלִין אֶת הַגְּשָׁמִים אֶלָּא סָמוּךְ לַגְּשָׁמִים. רִבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר הָעוֹבֵר לִפְנֵי הַתֵּיבָה בְּיוֹם טוֹב הָאַחֲרוֹן שֶׁל חָג הָאַחֲרוֹן מַזְכִּיר וְהָרִאשׁוֹן אֵינוֹ מַזְכִּיר. בְּיוֹם טוֹב הָרִאשׁוֹן שֶׁל פֶּסַח הָרִאשׁוֹן מַזְכִּיר וְהָאַחֲרוֹן אֵינוֹ מַזְכִּיר. עַד אֵימָתַי שׁוֹאֲלִין. רִבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר עַד שֶׁיַּעֲבוֹר הַפֶּסַח. רִבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר עַד שֶׁיֵּצֵא נִיסָן שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר וַיּוֹרֶד לָכֶם גֶּשֶׁם מוֹרֶה וּמַלְקוֹשׁ בָּרִאשׁוֹן׃ MISHNAH: One asks for rain¹⁰⁰In contrast to the mention of God’s power to bring rain (Taanit 1:1:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.1.1">Mishnah 1), which is recited in the part of the Amidah which is pure praise and recited daily, prayer asking for rain is different and part only of the weekday Amidah. only close to the rainy period. Rebbi Jehudah says, the one who stands before the Ark on the last holiday of Tabernacles¹⁰¹The Eighth day which is a separate holiday, where one does not sit in the sukkah and would not be importuned by rain. Since this is a holiday where nothing should be demanded from God, R. Jehudah must refer to the praise of God’s power to bring rain, not prayer asking for rain., the last one¹⁰²The reader of the musaf service. mentions but the first one¹⁰³The reader of the morning service. does not mention. On the first day of Passover, the first one mentions but the last one does not mention.
Until when does one pray¹⁰⁴As explained in Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Note 101, R. Jehudah prescribes stopping the praise for rain at the start of the Passover festival; in Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 2 he does not indicate a time for stopping the prayer.? Rebbi Jehudah says, until Passover has passed; Rebbi Meïr says, until Nisan has passed, as it is said¹⁰⁵Joel.2.23">Joel2:23. Since it may happen that all winter rains are concentrated in Nisan, one should not stop praying in Nisan even though late spring rain is very infrequent in Israel., He will bring down for you rain, early rain and late rain, in the first {month}.

הלכה: אָמַר רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. הֲלָכָה כְרִבִּי יוּדָה שֶׁאָמַר מִשֵּׁם רִבִּי יוּדָה בֶּן בָּתִירָה. רִבִּי אָבוּן בְשֵׁם רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. טַעֲם דְּרִבִּי יוּדָה כְּדֵי שֶׁיֵּצְאוּ הַמּוֹעֲדוֹת בְּטָל. מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהַטַּל סֵימָן יָפֶה לָעוֹלָם. HALAKHAH: Rebbi Joḥanan said, practice follows Rebbi Jehudah who said in the name of Rebbi Jehudah ben Bathyra¹⁰⁶Since R. Jehudah’s statement in Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 2 contradicts his statement in Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 3, only one of them may be followed in practice. R. Joḥanan notes that the one which will be determined not to represent R. Jehudah’s personal opinion will be actual practice.. Rebbi Abun in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan: The reason of Rebbi Jehudah, that all holidays end with dew¹⁰⁷Since in Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 2 R. Jehudah holds that in all Passover prayers except the first two one mentions dew but not rain in the second benediction of the Amidah, R. Abun’s statement must refer to Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 2, since in Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 3 R. Jehudah requires a mention of rain in all Passover prayers. This conforms to actual practice. since dew is a good sign³Greek σημεῑον. for the world.

מִחְלְפָה שִׁיטָּתֵיהּ דְּרִבִּי יוּדָה. תַּמָּן הוּא אָמַר. הָעוֹבֵר לִפְנֵי הַתֵּיבָה בְּיוֹם טוֹב הָאַחֲרוֹן שֶׁלְּחַג. הָאַחֲרוֹן מַזְכִּיר וְהָרִאשׁוֹן אֵינוֹ מַזְכִּיר. וְהָכָא הוּא אָמַר הָכֵין. חָדָא בְשֵׁם גַּרְמֵיהּ וְחָדָא בְשֵׁם רִבִּי יוּדָה בֶּן בָּתִירָה. וְלָא יָֽדְעִין הֵיי דָא בְשֵׁם גַּרְמֵיהּ וְהֶיידָא בְשֵׁם רִבִּי יוּדָה בֶּן בָּתִירָה. מִן מָה דְאָמַר רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. הֲלָכָה כְרִבִּי יוּדָה שֶׁאָמַר מִשֵּׁם רִבִּי יְהוּדָה בֶּן בָּתִירָה. וְאָמַר רִבִּי אָבוּן בְשֵׁם רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. טַעֲם דְּרִבִּי יוּדָה כְּדֵי שֶׁיֵּצְאוּ הַמּוֹעֲדוֹת בְּטָל. מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהַטַּל סֵימָן יָפֶה לָעוֹלָם. הָדָא אָֽמְרָה קַדְמִייָתָא בְשֵׁם גַּרְמֵיהּ וְתִינְייָתָא בְשֵׁם רִבִּי יוּדָה בֶּן בָּתִירָה. The argument of Rebbi Jehudah seems inverted. There¹⁰⁸Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 2. he says, “the one who stands before the Ark on the last holiday of Tabernacles, the last one mentions but the first one does not mention;” and here¹⁰⁹Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 3. he says so? One {Mishnah} in his own name, the other one in the name of Rebbi Jehudah ben Bathyra. But we do not know which one in his own name and which one in the name of Rebbi Jehudah ben Bathyra. Since “Rebbi Joḥanan said, practice follows Rebbi Jehudah who said in the name of Rebbi Jehudah ben Bathyra, and Rebbi Abun said in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan: The reason of Rebbi Jehudah, that all holidays end with dew since dew is a good sign for the world,” this implies that the first one is in his own name, the second one in the name of Rebbi Jehudah ben Bathyra¹¹⁰“First” here must refer to Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 3, “second” to Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 2. Only Taanit 1:2:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.2.1">Mishnah 2 is practice. Taanit.4b">Babli 4b..

בְּעוֹן קוֹמוֹי. אוֹ נִימַר. כָּאן לְהַזְכִּיר כָּאן לַשְּׁאֵלָה. אֲמַר לוֹן. הֲלָכָה מָקוֹם שֶׁמַּזְכִּירִין שׁוֹאֲלִין. אָמַר רִבִּי יוֹסֵה לְרִבִּי חֲנַנְיָה אֲחוֹי דְּרַב הוֹשַׁעְיָה. נְהִיר אַתְּ כַּד הֲוִינָן קַייָמִין קוֹמֵי חָנוּתֵיהּ דְּרַב הוֹשַׁעְיָה חָבִיבָךְ. עָבַר רִבִּי זְעוּרָה וּשְׁאַלְנָן לֵיהּ וְאָמַר. עוֹד אֲנָא הִיא צְרִיכָה לִי. עָבַר רִבִּי יָסָא וּשְׁאַלְנָן לֵיהּ וְאָמַר. עוֹד אֲנָא הִיא צְרִיכָה לִי. וּבְסוֹפָהּ אַתְּ מְצַייֵת לֵיהּ וְאָמַר. לֹא שַׁנְייָא. הֲלָכָה מָקוֹם שֶׁמַּזְכִּירִין שׁוֹאֲלִין. רִבִּי חִייָה בַּר בָּא אֲתַא מִן צוֹר וְאָמַר מִן שְׁמֵיהּ דְּרִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. הֲלָכָה מָקוֹם שֶׁמַּזְכִּירִין שׁוֹאֲלִין. רִבִּי אָחָא דְרַשׁ בַּבֵית מִדְרָשְׁא. רִבִּי יִרְמְיָה דְרַשׁ בִּכְנִישְׁתָּא דְבוּלֵי. הֲלָכָה מָקוֹם שֶׁמַּזְכִּירִין שׁוֹאֲלִין. וְהָא תַנִּינָן. [בִּשְׁלשָׁה] בְּמַרְחֶשְׁוָן שׁוֹאֲלִין אֶת הַגְּשָׁמִים. אָמַר רִבִּי תַנְחוּם בַּר חִייָה. בִּשְׁעַת הַמִּקְדַּשׁ שַׁנֵי. They asked before him¹¹¹R. Joḥanan., or might we say, here to mention and there to ask for¹¹²One stops mentioning rain on the first day of Passover but continues to pray for rain all intermediate days of the holiday.? He said to them, practice is that where one mentions one asks¹¹³If one stops the praise for rain one also has to stop the prayer. From the following it is clear that for R. Joḥanan and his students this also applies to fall; one has to start praying for rain immediately in the night following the last day of Tabernacles. Accepted in the Taanit.4b">Babli 4b for dwellers in the Holy Land.. Rebbi Yose said to Rebbi Ḥanania the brother¹¹⁴From the following it is obvious that one has to read “son of Rav Hoshaia’s brother” (cf. Shabbat 1:2:7" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Shabbat.1.2.7">Šabbat1, Note 180). of Rav Hoshaia, do you remember when we were standing in front of your uncle Rav Hoshaia’s store, Rebbi Ze`ira passed by and we asked him, but he said, this¹¹⁵The date when best to start praying for rain. is still problematic for me; Rebbi Yasa passed by and we asked him, but he said, this is still problematic for me. But at the end you heard from him: there is no difference; where one mentions one asks. Rebbi Ḥiyya bar Abba came from Tyre and said in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan, practice is that where one mentions one asks. Rebbi Aḥa preached in the house of study, Rebbi Jeremiah preached in the council synagogue, practice is that where one mentions one asks. But did we not state¹¹⁶Taanit 1:3:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.3.1">Mishnah 4., “[on the third of]¹¹⁷The corrector’s addition reproduces the start of Taanit 1:3:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Taanit.1.3.1">Mishnah 4. It is possible that the scribe’s text correctly gives the argument. The exact date of the start of the prayer for rain is in dispute, but all opinions concur that one only starts in the second month of the year, whereas R. Joḥanan requires starting during the first month, in the evening prayers of Tishre 23. Marḥeshwan one asks for rain”? Rebbi Tanḥum bar Ḥiyya said, that was stated in Temple times¹¹⁸In Temple times one had to let people return safely from Jerusalem to their homes in Egypt, Palestine, or Syria. But after the destruction of the Temple everybody stayed at home and one is able to combine mention and prayer also in the fall..

תַּנֵּי אָמַר רִבִּי יוּדָה. לְפִי שֶׁבָּעוֹלָם הַזֶּה הַתְּבוּאָה עוֹשָׂה לְשִׁשָּׁה חֳדָשִׁים וְהָאִילָן עוֹשֶׂה לִשְׁנֵים עָשָׂר חוֹדֶשׁ. אֲבָל לְעָתִיד לָבוֹא הַתְּבוּאָה עוֹשָׂה לְחוֹדֶשׁ אֶחָד וְהָאִילָן עוֹשֶׂה לִשְׁנֵי חֳדָשִׁים. מַה טַעֲמֵיהּ. לָֽחֳדָשָׁיו֙ יְבַכֵּ֔ר. רִבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר. לְפִי שֶׁבָּעוֹלָם הַזֶּה הַתְּבוּאָה עוֹשָׂה לְשִׁשָּׁה חֳדָשִׁים וְהָאִילָן עוֹשֶׂה לִשְׁנֵים עָשָׂר חוֹדֶשׁ. אֲבָל לְעָתִיד לָבוֹא הַתְּבוּאָה עוֹשָׂה לַחֲמִשָּׁה עָשָׂר יוֹם וְהָאִילָן עוֹשֶׂה לְחוֹדֶשׁ אֶחָד. שֶׁכֵּן מָצָאנוּ שֶׁעָשָׂת הַתְּבוּאָה בִימֵי יוֹאֵל לַחֲמִשָּׁה עָשָׂר יוֹם וְקָרֵב הָעוֹמֵר מִמֶּנָּה. מַה טַעֲמֵיהּ. וּבְנֵ֣י צִיּ֗וֹן גִּ֤ילוּ וְשִׂמְחוּ֙ בַּֽיי֨ אֱלֹֽהֵיכֶ֔ם כִּֽי־נָתַ֥ן לָכֶ֛ם אֶת־הַמּוֹרֶ֖ה לִצְדָקָ֑ה וַיּ֣וֹרֶד לָכֶ֗ם גֶּ֛שֶׁם יוֹרֶה וּמַלְק֖וֹשׁ בָּֽרִאשֽׁוֹן׃ מַה מְקַייֵם רִבִּי יוֹסֵה טַעֲמֵיהּ דְּרִבִּי יוּדָה לָֽחֳדָשָׁיו֙ יְבַכֵּ֔ר. בְּכָל־חוֹדֶשׁ וָחוֹדֶשׁ יְהֵא מְבַכֵּר. ¹¹⁹This is copied from Šeqalim6:2, Notes 87–88. It was stated: Rebbi Jehudah said, in the present world grain grows in six months and trees produce every twelve months, but in the future grain will grow in a month and trees will produce in two months. Rebbi Yose said, in the present world grain grows in six months and trees produce every twelve months, but in the future grain will grow in fifteen days and trees will produce in a month, for so we find that grain grew in the days of Joel in fifteen days, and the ‘Omer was brought from it. What is the reason? The people of Zion shall enjoy and be happy in the Eternal, your God, for He in truth gave you strong rain, early rain and late rain in the first {month}¹²⁰Joel.2.23">Joel 2:23. How does Rebbi Yose satisfy Rebbi Jehudah’s reason, in its months it shall produce first fruits? Every month it shall produce first fruits.