משנה: גָּנַב מִשֶּׁל אָבִיו וְאָכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אָבִיו מִשֶּׁל אֲחֵרִים וְאָכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אֲחֵרִים מִשֶּׁל אֲחֵרִים וְאָכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אָבִיו אֵינוֹ נַעֲשָׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה עַד שֶׁיִּגְנוֹב מִשֶּׁל אָבִיו וְיֹאכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אֲחֵרִים. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בֵי רִבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר עַד שֶׁיִּגְנוֹב מִשֶּׁל אָבִיו וּמִשֶּׁל אִמּוֹ׃ MISHNAH: If he stole from his father and ate at his father’s property, or from others and ate at others’ property, or from others and ate at his father’s property, he is not treated as deviant and rebellious son unless he stole from his father and ate at others’ property37That he stole money from his father to which he has easy access and ate at other’s premises where does not have to fear to be easily discovered. The facility of the crime will turn him into a habitual criminal (Sanhedrin.71a">Babli 71a).. Rebbi Yose ben Rebbi Jehudah says, unless he stole both from his father and his mother38Since in the relevant paragraph the Torah insists to mention the mother on equal footing with the father. If the mother has no separate property of her own, there is a question whether according to this opinion the son can never become deviant and rebellious (Sanhedrin 8:4:2" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Sanhedrin.8.4.2">Note 50)..
הלכה: גָּנַב מִשֶּׁלְּאָבִיו כול׳. אַזְהָרָה לַגְּנֵיבָה הָרִאשׁוֹנָה מְנַיִין. לֹא֖ תִּגְנוֹבוּ. אַזְהָרָה לַגְּנֵיבָה שְׁנִייָה מְנַיִין. לֹא֖ תִּגְנוֹבוּ. לֹא֖ תִּגְנוֹבוּ עַל מְנָת לְמַקֵּט. לֹא֖ תִּגְנוֹבוּ עַל מְנָת לְשַׁלֵּם תַּשְׁלוּמֵי כֶפֶל. עַל מְנָת לְשַׁלֵּם תַּשְׁלוּמֵי אַרְבָּעָה וַחֲמִשָּׁה. בֶּן בַּגְבָּג אוֹמֵר. לֹא תִגְנוֹב אֶת שֶׁלָּךְ מֵאַחַר הַגַּנָּב. שֶׁלֹּא תֵרָאֶה גוֹנֵב. HALAKHAH: “If he stole from his father,” etc. 39This Halakhah also is Sanhedrin 11:2:2-5" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Sanhedrin.11.2.2-5">Halakhah 11:2 (א); only the second paragraph is relevant here. From where a first warning about stealing: you shall not steal40As in 11:2 one should read do not stealלֹא תִגְנוב, Exodus.20.16">Ex. 20:16. The Ten Commandments only refer to the worst of crimes; stealing referred to there is kidnapping of humans, a capital crime (Sanhedrin.86a">Babli 86a, Bava meṣia` 61b).. From where a second warning about stealing: you shall not steal41Stealing as a civil offense is prohibited in Leviticus.19.11">Lev. 19:11. The remainder of the paragraph is a baraita also in Sifra Qedošim Parašah 2(2), Tosephta Bava qamma10;37–38, Babli Bava qamma 27b (Genesis.6.9-11.32">Tanhuma Noah 4). Stealing is forbidden even if one intends to return the stolen goods after teaching the owner a lesson, or to have a pretext to give a poor person money in the shape of a fine.. You shall not steal, in order to aggravate; you shall not steal, in order to pay double restitution, in order to pay quadruple or quintuple restitution. Ben Bagbag says, do not steal your own property from the thief, lest you be seen stealing.
רִבִּי בָּא רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן בְּשֵׁם רַב הוֹשַׁעְיָה. אֵינוֹ חַייָב עַד שֶׁיּגְנוֹב מָעוֹת. רִבִּי זְעִירָה בְשֵׁם רִבִּי הוֹשַׁעְיָה. אֵינוֹ חַייָב עַד שֶׁיְּזַלְזֵל מָעוֹת. מָהוּ שֶׁיְּזַלְזֵל מָעוֹת. מָה אֲנָן קַייָמִין. אִם בָּהוּ דְאָמַר. הֵא לָךְ חֲמִשָּׁה וְהַב לִי תְלָתָא. שַׁטִּי הוּא. הֵא לָךְ תְּלָתָא וְהַב לִי חֲמִשָּׁה. בַּר נַשׁ הוּא. אֶלָּא כִי נָן קַייָמִין בָּהוּא דָמַר. הֵא לָךְ חֲמִשָּׁה וְהַב לִי חֲמִשָּׁה. Rebbi Abba, Rebbi Joḥanan in the name of Rav42With 11:2 read “Rebbi”. Hoshaia: he is guilty only if he steals money. Rebbi Zeˋira in the name of Rebbi Hoshaia: he is guilty only if he shows contempt for money. What means showing contempt for money? Where do we hold? If about him who says, here you have five and give me for three, he is an idiot. Here you have three and give me for five, he is a regular person. But we deal with one who says, here you have five and give me for five43Since he has money, he has the urge to spend all of it even if it means that he buys more than he actually needs..
הֵי דֵינוֹ גַנָּב וְהֵי דֵינוֹ גַזְלָן. אָמַר רִבִּי הִילָא. גָּנַב בִּפְנֵי עֵדִים גַּנָּב. בִּפְנֵי הַבְּעָלִים גַּזְלָן. רִבִּי זְעוּרָה בָעֵי. מֵעַתָּה אֲפִילוּ נִתְכַּווֵן לִגְזֵילָה וּלְבַעֲלֶיהָ אֵין זֶה גוֹזְלָן. וְהֵידֵינוֹ גוֹזְלָן עַל דַּעְתֵּיהּ דְּרִבִּי זְעוּרָה. רִבִּי שְׁמוּאֵל בַּר סוֹסַרְטָא בְשֵׁם רִבִּי אַבָּהוּ. עַד שֶׁיִּגְזְלֶנּוּ בִפְנֵי עֲשָׂרָה בְנֵי אָדָם. בִּנְייָן אָב שֶׁבְּכוּלָּן וַיִּגְזוֹל אֶֽת־הַֽחֲנִית֙ מִיַּ֣ד הַמִּצְרִ֔י וַיַּֽהַרְגֵה֭וּ בַּֽחֲנִיתֽוֹ׃ What is a thief and what is a robber44With 11:2 read: “R. Zeˋira said.”? Rebbi Hila said, if he stole in the presence of witnesses, he is a thief, in the presence of the owners he is a robber. Rebbi Ze`ura asked45While the thief pays double to quintuple restitution, the robber only has to return the robbed goods. The distinction between thief and robber has far-reaching consequences. The thief takes by stealth, the robber in public. The question is, what is the definition of “in public”?: but if he intended to rob in front of its owners, he is not a robber. What is a robber according to Rebbi Ze`ura? Rebbi Samuel ben Sosarta in the name of Rebbi Abbahu: only if he rob in the presence of ten people. The prototype for all these: He robbed the spear from the hand of the Egyptian and killed him with his own spear462S. 23:21. R. Zeˋira insists that the characteristic of the robber is not that he takes by force, even in the presence of the owners, but that he does it in public. As always, “in public” is defined as in the presence of ten adult males. Babli Bava qamma 79b..