Jerusalem Talmud Bava Metzia 5:5

משנה: אֵין מְקַבְּלִין צֹאן בַּרְזֶל מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא רִיבִּית. אֲבָל מְקַבְּלִין צֹאן בַּרְזֶל מִהַגּוֹיִם וְלֹוִין מֵהֶן וּמַלְוִין אוֹתָן בְּרִיבִּית וְכֵן בְּגֵר תּוֹשָׁב. מַלְוֶה הוּא יִשְׂרָאֵל מָעוֹתָיו שֶׁל נָכְרִי מִדַּעַת הַנָּכְרִי אֲבָל לֹא מִדַּעַת יִשְׂרָאֵל. MISHNAH: One may not receive mortmain property¹¹⁵Property given in perpetuity, for which rental is due in perpetuity irrespective of whether the original objects are still in existence. Risk-free income is interest; this also is the definition of interest in modern Mathematics of Finance. from a Jew because that is interest. But one may receive mortmain property from Gentiles, one may borrow from them and lend them on interest, and similarly from a sojourner¹¹⁶A Gentile who follows the seven Noaḥide commandments, in particular the prohibition of idolatry.. A Jew can lend a Gentile’s money on interest by the Gentile’s instruction but not by a Jew’s¹¹⁷In particular, not his own initiative..

הלכה: אֵין מְקַבְּלִין צֹאן בַּרְזֶל מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל כול׳. אֵי זֶהוּ צֹאן בַּרְזֶל. הָיוּ לְפָנָיו מֵאָה צֹאן. אָמַר לוֹ. הֲרֵי הֵן עֲשׂוּיוֹת עָלָיו בְּק̇ שֶׁלְּזָהָב װֲלָדָן וַחֲלָבָן וְגִיזָתָן שֶׁלָּךְ וְאִם מֵתוּ אַתְּ חַייָב בְּאַחְרָיוּתָן וְאַתְּ מַעֲלֶה לִי סֶלַע שֶׁלְּכָל־אַחַת וְאַחַת מִשֶּׁלָּךְ בָּאַחֲרוֹנָה. אָסוּר. HALAKHAH: “One may not receive mortmain property form a Jew,” etc. ¹¹⁸Tosephta 5:13.“What is mortmain property? He had 100 sheep and told another: They are valued for you at 100 gold [denars]; their young, their milk, and their shearings are yours, but if they die you are liable for them and you pay me a tetradrachma for every one of them at the end of the year¹¹⁹This example has an interest rate of 16%.. This is forbidden^119aIn the Tosephta: permitted..”

רִבִּי יִרְמְיָה בָעֵי. תַּמָּן אַתָּ מַר. נוֹשֵׂא שָׂכָר חַייָב עַל הָאוֹנְסִין אָסוּר. וָכָא אַתָּ מַר. נוֹשֵׂא שָׂכָר חַייָב עַל הָאוֹנְסִין מוּתָּר. לֹא פְעָמִים שֶׁמַּתְנֶה שׁוֹמֵר חִנָּם לִהְיוֹת כְּשׁוֹאֵל. רִבִּי יִרְמְיָה בָעֵי. תַּמָּן אַתָּ מַר. צֹאן בַּרְזֶל לָרִאשׁוֹן. וָכָא אַתָּ מַר. לַשֵּׁינִי. אָמַר רִבִּי יוֹסֵי. תַּמָּן שֶׁעִיקָּרָן לָרִאשׁוֹן װְלָדָן לָרִאשׁוֹן. בְּרַם הָכָא עִיקָּרָן לַשֵּׁינִי װְלָדָן לַשֵּׁינִי. Rebbi Jeremiah asked: There¹²⁰Bava Metzia 5:3:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Bava_Metzia.5.3.1">Mishnah 5, which forbids handing over calves to be raised unless the rancher is paid for his work. you say that a paid trustee who would be responsible for accidents is forbidden. But here¹²¹Bava Metzia 5:4:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Bava_Metzia.5.4.1">Mishnah 6, which allows such contracts for adult animals without restrictions. you say that a paid trustee who is responsible for accidents is permitted. Does it not happen that an unpaid trustee agrees to be like a borrower^81,An agent is not liable for accidents only if he strictly acts in the principal’s interest. If he is permitted to use the other’s money for his own trades, be becomes liable as a borrower while remaining an agent (Babli 94a).¹²²The quote from Bava Metzia 5:3:2-8" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Bava_Metzia.5.3.2-8">Halakhah 5 is slightly out of place here. Since the rancher is supposed to use the animal for his purposes, he cannot be under the rules of the unpaid trustee; he is a paid trustee. But this is really irrelevant for the question; the main point is that the transaction involves an element of risk which shields it from the laws of interest, Bava Metzia 5:5:1" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Bava_Metzia.5.5.1">Note 115.? Rebbi Jeremiah asked: There¹²³Bekhorot 2:4" href="/Mishnah_Bekhorot.2.4">Mishnah Bekhorot 2:4, quoted in the Babli 70b. The offspring of a Gentile’s mortmain animals in the hands of a Jewish tenant farmer are not subject to the laws of the firstling since the mothers are considered the Gentile’s property. you say that mortmain belongs to the first, but here you say to the second¹²⁴In the Halakhah here, the offspring is defined as the tenant’s property.. Rebbi Yose said, there since the essence belongs to the first, the offspring are counted for the first¹²⁵Since the owner can repossess the mother if the tenant is in arrears with his payment, the Gentile retains a monetary interest in the mother. This is enough to free the offspring from the rules of firstlings.. But here the essence belongs to the second since the offspring belong to the second¹²⁶As explained in the Halakhah. For the majority opinion in Bekhorot 2:4" href="/Mishnah_Bekhorot.2.4">Mishnah Bekhorot 2:4, the offspring’s offspring is subject to the rules of firstlings for the same reason..

וְלוֹוִין מֵהֶן וּמַלְוִין אוֹתָן בְּרִיבִּית כול׳. רִבִּי אוֹמֵר. תּוֹשָׁב הָאָמוּר בְּעֶבֶד עִבְרִי אֵינִי יוֹדֵעַ מַה טִיבוֹ. גֵּר צֶדֶק הָאָמוּר בְּרִיבִּית אֵינִי יוֹדֵעַ מַה טִיבוֹ. “One may borrow from them and lend them on interest, and similarly from a sojourner.” Rebbi said, I do not know the definition of “sojourner” quoted in reference to the Hebrew slave. I do not know the definition of “proselyte” quoted in reference to interest¹²⁷In the Babli, 91a, “sojourner” is quoted in connection with interest, “proselyte” in connection with the Hebrew slave. There is no need to adapt the Babli’s reading.
The first reference is to Leviticus.25.47">Lev. 25:47: “If the hand of a stranger and sojourner with you be opulent but your brother wax poor next to him and be sold to the stranger sojourner with you or to the essence of the stranger’s family.” Rebbi notes that the verse implies that “stranger and sojourner” is the same as “stranger sojourner”. Therefore, he objects to the usual explanation (Kiddushin.20b">Qiddušin 20b; Sifra ad 25:47): “Stranger” is the proselyte; “sojourner” is the Noaḥide stranger, “stranger’s family” is the idolater, “essence” is an idolatrous temple. But he has no better interpretation to offer.
The second question is about Leviticus.25.35">Lev.25:35,Leviticus.25.36">36: “If your brother wax poor and his hand totter with you; you have to support him, stranger and sojourner and living with you. Do not take from him interest and increase, …” Here again, Sifra explains that “stranger” is the proselyte; “sojourner” is the Noaḥide stranger, but the second statement contradicts our Mishnah..

מַלְוֶה יִשְׂרָאֵל מָעוֹת נָכְרִי מִדַּעַת הַנָּכְרִי אֲבָל לֹא מִדַּעַת יִשְׂרָאֵל. יִשְׂרָאֵל שֶׁלָּוָה מִגּוֹי וּבִיקֵּשׁ לְהַחֲזִירָם לוֹ. אָמַר לוֹ יִשְׂרָאֵל אַחֵר. תְּנֵם לִי וַאֲנִי נוֹתֵן כְּדֶרֶךְ שֶׁאַתְּ נוֹתֵן לוֹ. אָסוּר. וְאִם הֶעֱמִידוֹ עִם הַגּוֹי מוּתָּר. [אָמַר רִבִּי יוֹסֵה. וְהוּא שֶׁהֶעֱמִידוֹ עִם הַגּוֹי.] “A Jew can lend a Gentile’s money on interest by the Gentile’s instruction but not by a Jew’s.” ¹²⁸Tosephta 5:16; Babli 71b. For the remainder of the Halakhah, cf. Tosefta kiFshutah Bava meṣi‘a pp. 220–229.“A Jew had loaned money from a Gentile and wanted to return it when another Jew said to him, give it to me and I shall pay him the same rate as you are paying; this is forbidden¹²⁹If the Jew receives the money from the Jew not on the Gentile’s command; this is forbidden by the Mishnah.. But if he introduced him to the Gentile, it is permitted.” [Rebbi Yose said, only if he let him stand with the Gentile.]¹³⁰Added from E supported by Nachmanides’s quote from the Yerushalmi in his Novellae ad 71b.
The question is, what is the role of the Gentile in this matter. Even though R. Yasa holds in Demay 6:1 (Note 10) and Terumot 1:1:16" href="/Jerusalem_Talmud_Terumot.1.1.16">Terumot 1:1 (Note 76) that a Gentile can appoint a Jew as his agent, and the Tosephta can be interpreted in this sense that the borrower has to get the lender’s agreement to transfer the loan to another borrower, R. Yose denies this and requires that the loan actually be transferred by the Gentile. The Amora R. Yose was the student of R. Jeremiah, student of R. Ze‘ira, student of R. Yasa.

גּוֹי שֶׁלָּװָה מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל וּבִיקֵּשׁ לְהַחֲזִירָם לוֹ. אָמַר לוֹ יִשְׂרָאֵל אַחֵר. תְּנֵם לִי וַאֲנִי מַעֲלֶה לוֹ רִיבִּית. מוּתָּר. וְאִם הֶעֱמִידוֹ אֵצֶל יִשְׂרָאֵל אָסוּר. אָמַר רִבִּי יוֹסֵי. וְהוּא שֶׁהֶעֱמִידוֹ אֵצֶל יִשְׂרָאֵל. ¹³¹Tosephta 5:17; Babli 71b. As long as the money is given by the Gentile, it is permitted. R. Yose holds that the Gentile cannot be the Jew’s agent; therefore, the transaction is prohibited only if the Jew is an agent, not if the Jew agrees to the Gentile’s action.“A Gentile had borrowed money from a Jew and wanted to return it when another Jew said to him, give it to me and I shall pay him the same rate as you are paying; this is permitted. But if he introduced him to the Gentile, it is forbidden.” Rebbi Yose said, only if he let him stand with the Gentile.

יִשְׂרָאֵל שֶׁלָּװָה מִגּוֹי וְגוֹי מִיּשְׂרָאֵל וְנִתְגַּייֵר. בֵּין שֶׁזְּקָפָן עַד שֶׁלֹּא נִתְגַּייֵר בֵּין מִשֶׁנִּתְגַּייָר גּוֹבֶה הַקֶּרֶן וְלֹא הָרִיבִּית אֲבָל גּוֹי שֶׁלָּװָה מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל וְנִתְגַּייֵר. אִם עַד שֶׁלֹּא נִתְגַּייֵר זְקָפָן עָלָיו בְּמִלְוָה גּוֹבֶה הַקֶּרֶן וְהָרִיבִּית. מִשֶׁנִּתְגַּייָר גּוֹבֶה הַקֶּרֶן וְלֹא הָרִיבִּית. בַּר קַפָּרָא אָמַר. גּוֹבֶה אֶת הַקֶּרֶן וְאֶת הָרִיבִּית. אָמַר רִבִּי יַעֲקֹב בַּר אָחָא. טַעֲמָא דְבַר קַפָּרָא. מִכֵּיוָן שֶׁאַתְּ מַבְרִיחוֹ מִן הָרִיבִּית אַף הוּא נַעֲשֶׂה גֵּר שֶׁקֶר. ¹³²Tosephta 5:21, Babli 72a.“A Jew had borrowed money from a Gentile or a Gentile from a Jew when he converted. Whether the loan was finalized before or after his conversion, he can collect the principal but not the interest.¹³³E has a longer text:
יִשְׂרָאֵל שֶׁלָּװָה מִגּוֹי וְגוֹי מִיּשְׂרָאֵל וְנִתְגַּייֵר. בֵּין שֶׁזְּקָפָן עַד שֶׁלֹּא נִתְגַּייֵר בֵּין מִשֶׁנִּתְגַּייֵר גּוֹבֶה הַקֶּרֶן וְלֹא הָרִיבִּית [דִּבְרֵי רִבִּי מֵאִיר. רִבִּי יוֹסֵה אוֹמֵר. יִשְׂרָאֵל שֶׁלָּװָה מִגּוֹי וְנִתְגַּייֵר. בֵּין שֶׁזְּקָפָן עַד שֶׁלֹּא נִתְגַּייֵר בֵּין שֶׁזְּקָפָן עָלָיו מִשֶּׁנִּתְגַּייֵר גּוֹבֶה הַקֶּרֶן וְאֶת הָרִיבִּית.]
A Jew had borrowed money from a Gentile or a Gentile from a Jew when he converted. Whether the loan was finalized before or after his conversion, he can collect the principal but not the interest [the words of Rebbi Meïr. Rebbi Yose says, if the Jew had borrowed money from a Gentile, whether the loan was finalized before or after his conversion, he can collect both principal and interest.]
The text attributed to R. Meïr is the same in Tosephta and Babli. The text attributed to R. Yose is the same in the Babli; it is the same as attributed to Bar Qappara in the Halakhah. In the Tosephta, R. Yose (the Tanna) holds that the Gentile debtor cannot pay interest after conversion but a Jewish debtor of a loan executed before the Gentile’s conversion has to pay interest (since the obligation he entered into was legitimate at the time it was assumed.) The E text as it stands is either superfluous or defective; the L text certainly is defective since the third sentence of the paragraph contradicts the second. The two sentences most likely belong to two different authors, as attested by the Tosephta. But if a Gentile had borrowed money from a Jew and converted, if the loan was finalized before he converted, he can collect principal and interest; after he converted, he can collect principal but not interest. Bar Qappara said, he can collect both principal and interest.” Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa said, Bar Qappara’s reason is that if you exempt him from interest he is turned into an insincere proselyte¹³⁴Who therefore might have difficulty in finding a Jewish mate; his rule is to the ex-Gentile’s benefit..

לוֹוֶה אָדָם מִבָּנָיו וּבְנֹתָיו בְּרִיבִּית אֶלָּא שֶׁמְּחַנְּכָן בָּרִיבִּית. אָמַר רַב. כְּגוֹן אֲנָא לְרַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה וְרַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה לִי. לֹא יְהֵא אָדָם לוֹוֶה בְשֶׁקֶל וּמַלְוֶה בְסֶלַע. אֲבָל גּוֹי לוֹוֶה בְשֶׁקֶל וּמַלְוֶה בְסֶלַע. ¹³⁵Tosephta 5:15; Babli 75a. The Babli version, “to lend his children and family” is presupposed here; otherwise Rav could not point to deals between him and his cousin’s son Rabba bar bar Ḥana. The Babli prohibits this practice; it only permits deals between scholars who know that interest is forbidden and give the money as a gift.“A person may borrow from his sons or daughters on interest, but he educates them for interest.” Rav said, e. g., I from Rabba bar bar Ḥana or Rabba bar bar Ḥana from me. “A person may not borrow for a šeqel and lend out for a tetradrachma; but a Gentile may borrow for a šeqel and lend out for a tetradrachma.¹³⁶A Jew cannot be a banker, taking deposits from Jews at 2% interest (one šeqel per mina) in order to lend to Gentiles at 4%. But a Gentile banker can take deposits from Jews or Gentiles to lend to other Jews at a higher rate.”

יִשְׂרָאֵל לוֹוֶה מִגּוֹי וְגוֹי מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל וְיִשְׂרָאֵל נַעֲשֶׂה לוֹ עָרָב וְאֵינוֹ חוֹשֵׁשׁ מִשּׁוּם רִבִּית. יִשְׂרָאֵל שֶׁמִּינָה גוֹי אֶפִּיטְרוֹפָּא אוֹ סַנְטָר מוּתָּר לִלְווֹת מִמֶּנּוּ בְּרִיבִּית. וְגוֹי שֶׁמִּינָה יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶפִּיטְרוֹפָּא אוֹ סַנְטָר אָסוּר לִלְווֹת מִמֶּנּוּ בְּרִיבִּית. מָעוֹת גּוֹי שֶׁהָיוּ מוּפְקָדִין אֵצֶל יִשְׂרָאֵל אָסוּר לִלְווֹת בְּרִיבִּית. מָעוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל שֶׁהָיוּ מוּפְקָדִין בְּיַד גּוֹי מוּתָּר לִלְווֹת מִמֶּנּוּ בְּרִיבִּית. זֶה הַכְּלָל. כָּל־שֶׁהוּא בָּאַחֵרָיוּת יִשְׂרָאֵל אָסוּר. בָּאַחֵרָיוּת גּוֹי מוּתָּר. ¹³⁷Tosephta 5:20; quoted in Tosaphot 71b, s. v. כגון. A Jew may borrow from a Gentile, and a Gentile from a Jew, and a Jew can become his guarantor without any worries about interest. If a Jew appointed a Gentile as guardian or steward¹³⁸The word was identified by S. Lieberman as Latin saltuarius, administrator of an agricultural domain. Since the Gentile gives the loan, interest is permitted even if the capital is a Jew’s., it is permitted to borrow from him on interest. But if a Gentile appointed a Jew as guardian or steward, it is prohibited to borrow from him on interest. ¹³⁹Tosephta 5:19. It is forbidden to borrow on interest a Gentile’s money deposited with a Jew; it is permitted to borrow on interest a Jew’s money deposited with a Gentile. This is the principle: Anything which the Jew has to warrant¹⁴⁰Since the banker is obligated to pay his depositors even if a borrower defaults, the deposits are treated as the banker’s property. is forbidden, what the Gentile has to warrant is permitted.